Obama!

For serious, intellectual debate about matters pertaining to the world and the global community.

Re: Obama!

Postby MarkMV on Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:15 pm

WarDragon989 wrote:
MarkMV wrote:He can't give a fantastic speech? His words alone have inspired hope in a nation, and indeed a world, currently in turmoil. Giving a good speech is about so much more than "playing the crowd". Listen to the words of influencial leaders such as Churchill and Martin Luther King, their words have inspired countless numbers of people, and are still recited to this day. Compare one of their speeches to a speech someone like Bush gave, and there is certainly a clear difference. I wont even bother with the fact that you cited the only sentence or two that he messed up out of an entire days worth of speeches. Look at it this way, untill today the man had done nothing, but through the power of word alone has managed to gain the trust of many nations and put hope in the hearts of just as many. He has the traits of a leader, and right now the western world needs one. Whether he will lead in the right direction remains to be seen, but you are truly underestimating the power of word.

People have not bashed him like Bush, Blair, and Brown, because as of yet he hasn't sent us off to war twice and ruined our economy. Blair and Bush also lied to us about the reasons for sending us to war.

He has stated that he will close Guantánamo Bay and has suspended trials there, and he has also frozen the salaries of high paid White House employees. I believe this is only the start of a more positive chapter in the history of America. I'm not saying he will completely save America like some sort of messiah, but I think he will bring about some good changes. Maybe we, in the UK, can achieve something similar in a few years and throw Labour out of government.


Look all i am saying is that the US Governement has made him a patsy, he's not there on his merits he's there because he looks good. Also those "speeches" are sometimes not his, as i am sure they have fantastic speech writers in the White House who especailly re-cycle good speeches.

A good speech giver is one who can make his own as you said Churchill and Martin L King did but now all he has to do is remember the areas to talk about, and forget to talk from the heart,though he is doing a good job conveying he does.

But whats going to happen after Guantánamo Bay? Everyone is saying its a great thing its a wonderful thing but what happens if we actually release "dangerous" people back on to the street and according to President Obama across the world. Hopefully they can catch a few with the Al Capone Law. =P

We'll see on the Anniversary if he has done anything truely "good" and if he is keeping his promises.


Yeah, because we all vote for people because they "look good" right? It couldn't possibly be that voters like the policies put forward by the candidate, or see one candidate as more capable than the other, right? Your claim perhaps reflects how you judge the rest of the world, but it is ignorant to assume that no Americans have the ability to make an informed decision on who they want to lead their country.

Do you not think Churchill had speech writers? Every polition does. That does not mean that every part of every speech they give is pre-written, because it doesn't work like that.

The closure of Guantanamo Bay is nothing to do with releasing "dangerous" people on to the streets. It is about putting an end to the disgusting violation of the human rights of the terror suspects detained there. Terror suspects will remain terror suspects, but they will not be subjected to the horrific torture methods often used there, which also violate international law, I would like to add.
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Re: Obama!

Postby WarDragon989 on Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:46 pm

MarkMV wrote:Yeah, because we all vote for people because they "look good" right? It couldn't possibly be that voters like the policies put forward by the candidate, or see one candidate as more capable than the other, right? Your claim perhaps reflects how you judge the rest of the world, but it is ignorant to assume that no Americans have the ability to make an informed decision on who they want to lead their country.

Do you not think Churchill had speech writers? Every polition does. That does not mean that every part of every speech they give is pre-written, because it doesn't work like that.

The closure of Guantanamo Bay is nothing to do with releasing "dangerous" people on to the streets. It is about putting an end to the disgusting violation of the human rights of the terror suspects detained there. Terror suspects will remain terror suspects, but they will not be subjected to the horrific torture methods often used there, which also violate international law, I would like to add.


I think this situation is very different especially for America. Policies? Whenever he was on the news they talked nothing about his policies, they talked about how this would be a revolution for the society, because a black man is going to the White House (never really said that but that's what i kept hearing and having Will Smith or another black person on screen didn't really help distill that view). Ignorant? You do remember i said "US Government" not the people of the US. The people of US can chose who the hell they want, on the views they please, but to the rest of the world it was all down to race as the current climate of America shows it, what’s even worse is that no one can really say that because they will be accused of racism. Yeah sorry i didn't know looking back at the history of their country was wrong, I mean i am sure Nixon was really a great man, so was Clinton, and of course Bush. To overlook the history of the country is ignorant in itself.

Possibly it depends, i heard he was a fantastic writer and didn't need pre-written items because he knew what he had to say as it came from the heart. And actually it does happen.

Ok, we close Guantanamo Bay. So what happens to all the people inside? They either get released as all the evidence against is now tainted and thrown out of court, or they try to get them on a lower law, tax evasion or something. Either way some will get through the system and Obama wants other countries to take them, no offense but if these people are as dangerous as they are said to be then it is a major risk to all countries. Closing Guantanamo is actually not a straight forward solution it is actually really complicated.

Yes, what has happened to the innocent people there is horrible but can you overlook the dangerous of certain people? What happens due to the closing Guantanamo, one person is not convicted and goes out and kills more people, who’s conscience will it be on next. We have rules (yes Guantanamo broke them), but the actual criminals in there, don't. Even the Geneva Convention creates more issues, as criminals use it when they please and cry foul when they did major attrocies and then they hide behind our rules its like the ultimate irony.

I just think the Guantanamo issue needs time a lot of it and everyone needs to look at the every single fine detail of each and every single person in there, before anyone is released. This situation is almost like a Pandora's Box.

Anyway i can't be arsed talking about this anymore, we'll just have to wait and see what happens and how come is no one else talking about it =/
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Re: Obama!

Postby Kraise on Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:59 pm

Not to go offtopic (as this could easily descend into another thread altogether), but the ironic thing is that a lot of racists probably voted for Obama. Curious thing.
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